[olug] Tor could be all the more important

Fri Jul 29 18:25:41 UTC 2011

That is the entire point of the law is that people need to stop comparing
everything to the Nazi regime. They murdered millions and millions of
citizens.

And we don't have a totalitarian regime just because they want to sniff ISP
traffic. Honestly, this is no different than wire taps and searches. The
same precedent in the Constitution should apply, and this should be
regulated by warrants. There is an issue that the government apparently
feels like they don't need warrants anymore as of late. But they still
aren't a totalitarian regime.

Sniffing ISP traffic is not on par with genocide. Stop making everything
about the Nazis.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Sam Tetherow <tetherow at shwisp.net> wrote:

> The law doesn't apply anyway because the corollary being made is to
> totalitarian regime and is thus a valid comparison to Nazis.
>
> On 7/29/11 12:39 PM, Kevin wrote:
>
>> I call intentional invoking of the law. I was referring to "there was
>> no one left to speak out for me"; the origins of the poem are
>> irrelevant to what I am saying.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:01, T. J. Brumfield<enderandrew at gmail.**com<enderandrew at gmail.com>>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Godwin%27s_law<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Kevin<sharpestmarble at gmail.com**>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Neither do I. Once they start tracking this, it's a logical next step
>>>> to tracking connections. At which point if it were a "we prefer you do
>>>> this", then we open bittorrent for lots of legal torrents and start
>>>> creating connections left and right and make it economically
>>>> impossible for them to do so. However, this is the government. They
>>>> will require ISPs to track this, whereupon it becomes a cost passed
>>>> along to the consumer. And as for the slippery slope, we've started
>>>> down it long ago. And....
>>>>    First they came for the communists,
>>>>    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
>>>>
>>>>    Then they came for the trade unionists,
>>>>    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
>>>>
>>>>    Then they came for the Jews,
>>>>    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
>>>>
>>>>    Then they came for me
>>>>    and there was no one left to speak out for me.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:15, Dave Rowe<dave at roweware.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> /facepalm - you're right, Kevin.  A bit alarmist on my end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still.  I don't like where this could go.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Dave Rowe<dave at roweware.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did you read that?  It referenced an early draft from 18 months
>>>>>> ago would only track that information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From the beginning of the article:
>>>>>> "A last-minute rewrite of the bill expands the information that
>>>>>> commercial Internet providers are required to store to include
>>>>>> customers' names, addresses, phone numbers, credit card numbers, bank
>>>>>> account numbers, and temporarily-assigned IP addresses, some committee
>>>>>> members suggested. By a 7-16 vote, the panel rejected an amendment
>>>>>> that would have clarified that only IP addresses must be stored."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Kevin<sharpestmarble at gmail.com**>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> According to TFA, it was just accounting stuff and DHCP IPs that would
>>>>>>> be tracked(name, address, bank account/CC#). Actual traffic and
>>>>>>> connections wouldn't be logged.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:36, T. J. Brumfield<enderandrew at gmail.**
>>>>>>> com <enderandrew at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There has been evidence that Tor isn't really anonymous and can be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tracked
>>>>
>>>>> back to you. On top of that, they're talking ISP sniffing, so they're
>>>>>>>> grabbing your data directly from your connection to the internet. So
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they'll
>>>>
>>>>> have your MAC, and all your traffic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the end, I'm not worried too much because ultimately I don't have
>>>>>>>> anything to hide. But this should be just like any other kind of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> search, and
>>>>
>>>>> dependent on a warrant. I'm not sure why warrantless tracking and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> searches
>>>>
>>>>> are suddenly acceptable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://xkcd.com/538/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:32 AM,<jman at miwire.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    I keep all for at least one year....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Kelly Williams<kellywilliams81@**gmail.com<kellywilliams81 at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>  wrote ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok I agree with you for the children, but our privacy like emails
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> loved ones or IMs to that special someone that you love. In a way I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>
>>>>> glad I am cutting my internet service and use public internet. But
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>
>>>>> https and tor with a proxy. Plus if sending a file to online backup
>>>>>>>>> encrypt it before I send it....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/29/2011 10:02 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But think of the children! What will protect them from Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Pornographers?!?! :rolleyes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 09:55, Dave Rowe  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Using utilities like Tor and what not for protecting traffic -
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>
>>>>> legit, 'normal' traffic.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  http://news.cnet.com/8301-**31921_3-20084939-281/house-**
>>>> panel-approves-broadene<http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20084939-281/house-panel-approves-broadene>
>>>>
>>>>> d-isp-snooping-bill/?tag=**mantle_skin;content
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  ****************************************************************
>>>> ****************
>>>>
>>>>>   ******* Science says all matter in the universe to be made up of
>>>>>>>>> essentially
>>>>>>>>>   five things. 1. Electron 2. Up quark 3. Down quark 4. Neutron 5.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Photon
>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>